How do I set boundaries for myself without feeling like I'm letting people down?

The More the Brainier

Episode 1: How do I set boundaries for myself without feeling like I'm letting people down?

Introduction

Christine Renaud (: 00:01

Welcome to "The More the Brainier," the brave space where creative minds come to share and solve their most pressing burning questions. From Montreal, I'm your host, Christine Renaud, CEO of braindate. Over the last decade at braindate, I've seen over and over again how peer-led discussions can truly be transformative. This is why, for each of our three guests, I will guide a conversation that will hopefully help them solve their most pressing burning question.

I'm here today in the studio with Jane Gibb, our creative producer.

Jane Gibb (: 00:53

Hello everybody. This month on this first ever edition of "The More the Brainier," we're delighted to welcome Rekha Magon, co-founder and head of education at Boundless Life, Felix Rundel, co-founder and chief research officer at Future Hein, and Vinod Rajasekaran, CEO and editor-in-chief at Future of Good. Together we will delve into their burning questions and explore a range of intriguing topics, including the intersection of boundaries and guilt, the interplay of dark mode and hope mode, and the art of fostering curious conversations in divided times.

Christine Renaud (: 01:37

Rekha, Félix, Vinod, Bonjour!

Felix Rundel:

Hello

Christine Renaud:

So glad you're here.

Felix Rundel:

Nice to be here.

Christine Renaud (: 01:47

Awesome. And where are you joining from?

Rekha Magon:

I'm calling in from Syros, Greece. It's a small island in Greece.

Felix Rundel:

I'm in Berlin, Germany.

Vinod Rajasekaran:

I'm so jealous of where you folks are calling in from.

I'm in Bali. No, I'm kidding. I'm in Ottawa, Canada, and it's minus 17 Celsius outside right now.

Christine Renaud (: 02:19

Yeah, it was kind of spring in Canada and then winter came back. We're so delighted that you're here. So grateful that you're joining us for this first ever podcast, "The More the Brainier." I was curious when I was thinking about this conversation with you, I was wondering, how does it feel for you as founders? Because you're all founders. How does it feel to be part of somebody else's first?

Rekha Magon:

I think it's cool. I mean, that first session of anything that you launch is always a little nerve wracking. And I think as a fellow founder, you can empathize with that and also be part of the excitement that comes with that. I think it's really cool. I love actually being part of the first because you also then get to see the transformation of the product and the evolution. And when you come to the other side, I think there's even more appreciation because you've seen it from the grassroots.

Christine Renaud:

Totally, it's funny because yesterday I just shared it on LinkedIn, and already folks were sharing ideas that I thought were fantastic. So I think you're so right. It's what it is today and what it's going to be in a year from now won't be the same. Anything else to mention, Vinod, Felix?

Felix Rundel:

This is not your first "first" in that sense. The humble beginnings of founding are always the most humble and the most experimental. I guess this is your probably 150th first. So we're not starting from zero. It's amazing. And I'm really looking forward also to the next guests on this.

Christine Renaud (: 04:01

Amazing. Awesome. So talking about guests, I suggest that we start right away with our first guest. So we'll start today with Rekha. So Rekha, you're the co-founder and head of education at Boundless Life. In life, you're also a globetrotter, a sunset seeker, a tree lover, and a silence enthusiast. Would you tell us more about Boundless Life?

Rekha Magon:

Yeah, sure. We launched Boundless Life three years ago and our goal was to create this turnkey solution for families so that they can live, work and learn all while experiencing the world. So what we do is we provide fully furnished apartments, a co-working space, which we call a hub for people to work at, and then we build an education center for those families' children.

We service children between the ages of one and now 14. We follow a Finnish education model, so a lot of hands-on, experiential learning, really making the world our classroom for these kids. We have operations running in seven locations. We're in Portugal, Greece, where I'm calling in from, Tuscany, Bali, Montenegro, Spain, and we launch Uruguay in a month. So pretty exciting. We've grown quickly and it's very fulfilling work.

Christine Renaud:

Yeah, this is all in the span of what, three years?

Rekha Magon (: 05:35

Three years, yeah, we just celebrated our three year anniversary this month.

Christine Renaud:

Amazing. And would you tell us which location is your favorite?

Rekha Magon:

Ooh, that's always a hard question. I am very partial to Portugal. Sintra was our very first location. And I think that first, your first baby always holds a special part in your heart. So I definitely love the Portuguese and that small Sintra town, very magical, very nature-esque. I have a soft spot for Portugal, Bali has a close second and this Greek island is pretty beautiful as well.

Christine Renaud:

And you're with your own family, right? They follow you around the world.

Rekha Magon (: 06:25

Yeah, we have two kids. I have a 13-year-old and a 10-year-old and they've been doing Boundless education since we launched three years ago, full-time. So as a family, all of us travel and we spend three months in every different location. And then we still come back to Montreal for the summers or for Christmas holidays, but we're a full-time Boundless family with everyone else.

Christine Renaud:

Would you tell me, do you have any stories or anything you can tell us about the difference in families, first timers, like first Boundless lifetimers, the difference that you witness when families come in from where they leave the program in their first time? What is the difference you see in those families?

Rekha Magon:

Yeah, for sure. I think when you start a boundless cohort for the first time, there's always a little bit of fear. I sense that definitely from families coming. It's a very alternative way of living. So you're leaving everything that you're used to back home, where you grew up, your family, all of those comfort zone points. So there's always a little bit of fear and angst, I find, on those first few days.

What I see very quickly within the first week is that families, they come as if they're carrying this weight on their shoulders, this weight of routine and ingrained patterns and expectations that kind of define who they are back home, who they are as parents, who they are as children, who they are as community members. And one thing we see big time that shifts over three months is that families get this opportunity to have a fresh start when they start a new cohort.

Nobody knows you, nobody's judging you or putting you in a box or you're not coming with the labels that we typically tend to have back where we come from. So it's this opportunity to break free from that autopilot living that a lot of us get stuck into. I go right back into it every time we go back to Montreal, unfortunately. But when you're in a cohort, it's like families start to consciously decide how they want to use their time, how they want to connect with each other, how they want to connect with the community members that are in that cohort, and how they want to show up not only for themselves, but for their families.

It's really beautiful because it's like a new beginning for everybody. I find even for myself, like I've done so many cohorts now, I'm probably at like cohort 17, but every beginning of a cohort feels like this opportunity for constant renewal, which I think is really powerful, especially as a family unit to consciously choose how you're going to show up in this new setting. And it's about travel, but it's not just about travel. I think it's also about intentionally creating the life that we want to live together with those that we love.

Christine Renaud:

That's amazing. I'm so looking forward to my first cohort. It has to come soon for sure. I've been following your work for all those years and it's so inspiring. Thank you for being here.

Rekha's Burning Question

Christine Renaud (: 10:01

So we can get started with your burning question.

Rekha Magon:

I have a big burning question.

Christine Renaud:

I think all of our questions in this series are questions that people will really relate to. So I'm really excited to dig in. Rekha, you have 90 seconds to share with us your burning question, and you might also include any relevant context that might help us better understand your question and better support you. So you can go ahead.

Rekha Magon:

My question is, we wear so many different hats and so many different roles in this life. And my burning question is, how do I set boundaries for myself without feeling like I'm letting people down? That's something that I'm constantly battling with and I don't have an answer yet. So I'm hoping this group of brains can help enlighten me on how not to let people down and still be able to set boundaries.

Christine Renaud:

Absolutely, and I think we're all parents, so I think we all definitely can relate to that.

Clarifying Questions

Christine Renaud (: 11:11

So, Vinod and Felix, we have four minutes where we can ask any clarifying questions for Rekha. Who would like to start?

Felix Rundel:

I can start. Thanks for your question, Rekha. I think it's a very relevant question. And I think, as Christine said, something that we're all sort of navigating together. When you say people, who do you mean exactly?

Rekha Magon:

Great question. I mean, I can name a list, from whether it's my children or my spouse or my co-founders or my employees or community members. I guess everyone that kind of just circles my day-to-day living and that might feel like they need something of me constantly. There's so many different people in my life that I feel like they need me in some way or form. So it's almost like this not wanting to disappoint and always wanting to show up and give.

Felix Rundel:

Have you made any progress on this over the last few years or has this been a constant issue challenge?

Rekha Magon (: 12:28

It's a constant. I think it's gotten worse, to be honest. I think with added responsibilities and as our company grows and life gets busier, I think it's actually gotten a lot worse because I feel like there's more people now that depend on me. I just have a hard time saying, no, this is what I need for me right now. And that's always a thing that kind of just doesn't make it to the list.

Felix Rundel:

And if you think about your time and your capacity, at what percentage do you think you're booked or engaged right now?

Rekha Magon:

I'd say like 80% work-wise. And then I think by want, the rest of the 20% is like, family. Whatever is left has to go to my family. But then that leaves very little, no space for me.

Christine Renaud (: 13:35

Any other questions?

Vinod Rajasekaran:

When you're in that moment, when you're in that moment when it's up to you to say yes or no to something, are you aware of that agency or of that decision you're making? Or is it more of a reflex like instant yes?

Rekha Magon:

Great question. I think there's a lot of reflex, yes, like, "yeah, I got this, no worry. I'll take that, I can take that on, I can do this." Probably like a little bit of people pleasing in there, to always just be able to be there when someone needs you. As nice as that is, I think I'm sure it's like a people pleasing thing that I need to work on myself. So yes, there's definitely like an autopilot mode there of just being the yes person. I'll take it.

Christine Renaud:

Vinod, did you have another question?

Vinod Rajasekaran (: 14:32

Yeah, sort of just unpacking the letting people down. Is this how you're feeling or is this what people have said to you?

Rekha Magon:

From a work context, I guess it's no one's ever said that to me. So it's probably just my own standard of what I feel like I should be delivering on or being there for people. So no, no one's ever told that to me. It's definitely in my own mind, self-created.

Discussion

Christine Renaud (: 15:15

Thank you everyone for the questions. Now it's time to sit back and take it in. Rekha, that's the moment where you have to turn your back to the camera. No, just kidding. No, you can just mute yourself if you want to so that we don't hear too much sound in the background. And now Vinod and Felix, it's time for us to discuss. So just really sharing perspectives, even sharing things that have happened to you in your life that could be of benefit to Rekha.

Felix Rundel (: 15:45

Vinod, I'd let you go first because I feel like I'm a very poor commenter on this since this is a great question. Rekha also has a very personal concern to me. I think my last virtual brain date I did, a group brain date, was a headline, balancing ambition and personal energy, which also seems to be an issue here. But I'm happy to share from my past failures and learnings. But hey, why don't you start first?

Vinod Rajasekaran:

Thanks, Felix. I'm curious to hear why you think I'm more suited to go first. Happy to go first. I think we're all in some way experiencing this in some circles. Personally, for me, about three and a half years ago, I had a cycling accident on my way to work.

It was just a routine bicycle ride to the office and I ended up getting sort of squeezed between a public transit bus and the curb as the bus was trying to get into the bus stop. Why bicycle lanes are designed this way is a whole other braindate that we can get into on urban mobility, but I suffered a concussion as a result. And it was absolutely life-changing.

And every concussion is life-changing. There's no such thing as a mild concussion, I say. But it really quite literally made me slow down in my life and in my work and examine everything that I spent time on. Almost everything. Personally, professionally, hobbies, et cetera.

Vinod Rajasekaran (: 17:46

I'm still battling a lot of post-concussion symptoms, which is why me being on video is very rare. I don't do it much these days unless I absolutely have to. And because it's one of the triggers for low grade headaches for me, I still continue to have headaches, light sensitivity, sound sensitivity, issues with memory loss, all of that sort of stuff. But the positive thing, I suppose, in all of this is that it has led me to really examine this question that Rekha is sort of on about. And I'm still on the journey of examining this for myself.

But one of the things that perhaps I could suggest is there may be two sides to this coin. One is you may actually be more of a bottleneck than you think you are. And the other side of that coin is a lot of this in my experience is self-induced and self-created. And so what are the habits where you can learn to let go of it? Not just sort of actually from a habits perspective, but emotionally, psychologically, mentally.

And so I think my suggestion would be to do two audits for yourself in your time. One is what I would call a presence audit. So actually reflect on where and how you would like to be present. Not sort of working on things and actioning things and approving things and so on, but just full presence.

And so this could be in your hobbies, this could be for yourself, it could be with your grandmother, it could be with your kids, with your team, et cetera. A full presence audit. Really identify where you feel like you're feeling present, where you feel like you're feeling not as present, and where you feel like you're feeling completely not present.

Vinod Rajasekaran (: 20:09

And then the second audit is really a bottleneck audit. And really understand for yourself by listening to others where they're saying you're the bottleneck. And this could come from your team, could come from your kids, could come from people who you play soccer with. It doesn't matter. But really get a sense from people that you spend the most time with where they feel you're actually a bottleneck for something. And so those are the two things that I would start with.

Christine Renaud:

I would piggyback on that. I think Vinod, this is really thoughtful. And I agree with everything you mentioned. And I would say also for me that clarity, and I know Rekha personally, and I know she has a very strong spiritual practice. I know Rekha is somebody with a lot of clarity. And I think also that what I'm hearing right now is that maybe there's some clarity lacking around your vision of success for your life and what are your priorities?

And I know we always hear that, but at Braindate, we implemented the EOS system last year - the entrepreneurial operating system - and the core habit to develop is setting those rocks. So those priority projects and you cannot have 20, you can have like two or three. And having clarity around really what is it that you're trying to accomplish that is crucial. And that includes obviously Boundless Life, but also your family and yourself. I think having clarity on that will really be crucial.

And also something that Vinod mentioned, the word you use "dependent on me." I really wonder who's dependent on you because you have kids that are not two anymore. You're not breastfeeding. They don't technically depend on you.

And in your team, I'm also wondering who depends on you. And if it's the case, if people do depend on you, maybe there's work to be done around helping folks to gain more autonomy, have them having more clarity as well on your expectations, but then they can run with it and be autonomous so they don't depend on you. So if you're not there all the time, then it's not a big deal because they can live their life and know that you'll be happy with their work and what they're doing, their behavior, whomever we're talking about, if it's kids or your team.

Felix, did you want to add something?

Felix Rundel:

Yeah, just from my personal experience, I mentioned these past failures and learnings. I think I had to walk into a pretty heavy crisis two years ago until I learned that I have to focus on my energy and protect my energy, which has become some kind of a meme also with friends or a keyword "protect your energy."

That even now when I'm sick, and I'm a bit slower, I'm just sending this out to my friends or to people in a closer business environment, "protect your energy," they know what's up that I'm doing this at the moment, and it might take a few days longer. This is the radical shift that happened to me, but I really had to go through a functional burnout for half a year to kind of get there. So take these measures before you get there, of course. And yeah, I think we've all been at this point.

Christine Renaud:

Absolutely. My word this year is "sacred." And to be honest, I'm not doing that great of a job with it right now. But I think to your point, Felix, I think also it's the practice. It's not a straight path, but it's that practice and talking about it and finding ways and trying things and, like you say, failing, but then doing better. I think it's crucial.

Vinod Rajasekaran (: 24:04

Yeah, absolutely. Whether it's family or friends or teammates, everything becomes an emergency for everyone. So I think, and it's very difficult for a lot of people, including teammates and kids, to discern what is an actual emergency and what is a perceived emergency. Everything just is an emergency.

When everything becomes an emergency and they project that onto you, my daughter last night couldn't find her sweater. Emergency. And so my teammate got an unpleasant email from a partner. Emergency. Everything just becomes an emergency. And so really being able to build up the capacity for yourself to discern and to instill in others what is actually an emergency.

And so my daughter and I now go through this exercise of "is it the end of the world?" And she has to ask herself this, is it the end of the world?

Rekha's Takeaways

Christine Renaud (: 25:22

Rekha, your right to speak is now being granted to you again. So I would love to hear any takeaways, next steps that you have in mind after this conversation.

Rekha Magon:

I think it was so very relevant. I think taking on what Vinod just said, I think that's a huge one, recognizing that someone else's emergency doesn't have to become mine, and not taking on that highly charged emotion that comes when you're dealing with many different people around the world and you are living in your community and they're very highly charged and everything does feel like an emergency. So I think that advice to be able to discern what is an emergency and just not taking it on if it's not for you is really powerful.

And I think also getting more clarity myself on who is really dependent on me. I think I'm probably self-making these people dependent on me or think they're dependent on me, but they're actually very autonomous and very smart individuals who can take care of things without me.

Yeah, I think it's just like you guys said, a matter of practicing it, doing these audits and actually putting time and energy towards starting a new practice that is more protective of my time, my energy and setting those boundaries. So very useful. Thank you guys.

Conclusion

Christine Renaud (: 26:57

Thank you everybody for a super great conversation. The first one ever. We're making history. Many thanks also to Jane Gibb, our creative producer here at "The More the Brainier," and to Chris Leon and Jenya Sverlof, our delightful sound engineers.

Jane Gibb:

Next week we'll hear from Felix Rundel, co-founder and chief research officer at Future High. Through his burning question, we'll explore the interplay of dark mode and hope mode. We hope you can join us.

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